Philipp Stelzer: Hello, and welcome to another edition of the RevOps Lab Podcast. My name is Philip, and I'm here together with Janis. And our guest today is Lauren Hughes. Lauren, welcome.

Lauren Hughes: Hi. Thanks for having me.

Janis Zech: Yeah. Welcome. Great to have you on the pod. Really a pleasure. Thanks to Janis for organizing this. Our topic here today is how to align go to market and product through the power of revenue operations, essentially. But before we dive deeper into the topic, Lauren, who are you and what do you do?

Lauren Hughes: Hi. I'm Lauren Hughes, and I currently am vice president of revenue effectiveness at Justworks. Revenue effectiveness on my team today comprised of both revenue strategy and operations as well as go to market readiness. And my focus is really on building the connective tissue across sales, customer success, customer support, marketing, and product to ensure we deliver, you know, revenue growth and also really great customer experience.

Janis Zech: Awesome. I think we had, like, a few episodes in the past where we try to kinda, like, go deeper on how to really set up, like, a good revenue operations system at different types of companies. I think it's always good to go deeper on this topic because I think every company has its own challenges and unique setups. And I think you had some really great experiences at a company called InMobi. For our listeners, what was so special about InMobi and maybe also just introduce InMobi a bit because I think it's probably a little bit unknown to most of us. Philipp and I actually — we know the company from our past as we worked with InMobi as, yeah, either customer or, like, provider, not sure. And so, yeah, maybe you could just introduce that a bit.

Lauren Hughes: Yeah. So I started at InMobi in twenty twenty one, and InMobi actually is the first unicorn in India. And we are kind of riding the waves of COVID and the, you know, company was just booming from a revenue perspective. And when I started there, we were running at about three hundred million in annual revenue. And within the four and a half years I was there, we more than doubled that. So super hyper growth, really exciting time to be at the company. I joined, we were probably around maybe eleven, twelve hundred people, and we were close to kind of fifteen hundred, sixteen hundred when I left four and a half years later. So global company, really interesting model based in India, headquartered in India in Bangalore. But the majority of the customers and actually the majority of the revenue all comes out of the US. So while our operations were in Bangalore, our founders were all in Bangalore, really the customers and the, you know, the kind of customer centric approach was really rooted in the US, which is why they hired me as their first ever revenue operations leader to be based out in New York.

Janis Zech: Yeah. And the sales function was then also mostly based in the US for the US customers, or was it mixed, or how did that work out?

Lauren Hughes: Yeah. So it's interesting. When I first joined, we had three regional teams across North America, EMEA, and APAC, all run by three different regional leaders. And over the course of a few years after I had been there, we ended up kind of dissolving that regional sales model and moving to more of a globally centric sales model. So we did have sellers in region across New York, London, Singapore, and many sellers also in India. You know, we also had global teams, global agency leadership teams, global client development leadership teams. So it was a mix kind of towards the end of my time there.

Janis Zech: Yeah. Maybe, like, just to go back in time to the beginning when you first started at InMobi, what was sort of, like, the situation there in terms of, like, the topics that you thought, okay, this is what I need to tackle first, which were, like, the big problems that you identified. How did you start thinking about it after joining InMobi? And maybe I think, like, a helpful background here would also be sort of, like, the situation of InMobi at that point in time, sort of, like, where was the company trying to, you know, get? Like, you know, was it sort of, like, the next funding round? Was it, like, you know, pre IPO or sort of, like yeah. What was the level there?

Lauren Hughes: Yeah. I joined at such an interesting time. So I joined in April twenty twenty one. Our growth was exploding a lot along with, like, many other companies kind of in that mid to kind of post COVID. Actually, the wave of COVID had hit India right as I joined. And so when it was really bad in the US in twenty twenty, it was really bad in India in early twenty twenty one. And, you know, people were donating blood on motorcycles and it was a wild, wild time. And so the company was planning for an IPO. That was a very big priority for them and largely the reason they brought me in to run the revenue operations team and to build and run the revenue operations team. When I first joined, there were two people tinkering in Salesforce. No system administration experience whatsoever, full tinkering. And the instance was, you know, at that point over thirteen years old, the company that the founders meant to build all those years ago was not at all what it was then, which was a mobile ad exchange. And so I had a really long road ahead of me as I thought through kind of how to structure my team, how to build my team around the opportunity from a revenue strategy and operations perspective. And I quickly was able to grow my team from those two individuals to over twenty five people in a pretty short amount of time, but I took on functions like business operations for the entire company, global planning and interlock for the entire company, go to market systems, go to market strategy, enablement, sales compensation and design, and eventually, I took on product strategy and operations as well. I was also running the CEO's office, and I kind of flip flopped from reporting to a strategy and operations, a central strategy and operations unit to actually reporting to the CFO towards the end of my time there.

Janis Zech: Okay. So and how did you think about sort of, like, if we start from the beginning? You know, I think, like, a key challenge, obviously, is finding the right people. You mentioned, like, for example, two people tinkering with the Salesforce system. Was this, like, maybe, like, the first thing that you tried to fix by hiring, like, more professionals there? Or, you know, sort of, like, what was, like, in your mind, okay, this is the first person I need to help me scale the rest, to hire, like, a manager, to hire, like, individual contributors. You know, where do you go from there, basically?

Lauren Hughes: Yeah. It was a really interesting time. I also joined when we were trying to stand up an order to cash automation project, and we were working with a third party consultant, Wipro, at the time. And, you know, so the systems piece, I was assuming was going to be handled through that third party consulting engagement and really through the automation of the order to cash process. So I focused my efforts kind of in the early days on really like the global business planning piece. We had three different regional teams. We had four different product units and everybody was running around kind of doing whatever suited them. So the first hire I made actually was an awesome, awesome guy. I'm sure he'll be listening and patting himself on the back. But he came in to run global business planning and really annual strategic planning, long range three year planning, interlocking across finance, marketing, product, and really making sure that there was some sort of cohesion to the story that we were telling. As a business, we are rooted in our mobile ad exchange, but beyond that, we were dabbling in kind of first party publishing kind of business with our Glance business. And we were also, you know, kind of dabbling in some gaming things, I think, you know, gaming specific DSP. And, you know, everybody had their own unique, you know, goals and, you know, objectives for their team. And we really needed to make sure all of that came together in one cohesive story that, quite frankly, the founders could go out and represent in the market. And so that was a really, really key hire for me, just having that global business planning manager there to help coordinate and interlock everybody. And of course, you know, the annual plan then turns into, you know, monthly business reviews, quarterly business reviews, and really an operating cadence for which, you know, they — at that point, I think it's thirteen different leaders across revenue and product and the founders and marketing. And so getting all of those guys on a regular operating cadence together, talking about progress in the business and making sure that they all know what each other's working on was really a big undertaking and something that I, you know, I really needed the support in. So that was the first hire I made, and he turned out to be amazing in getting that kind of function up and running. And from there, I really pivoted. Business intelligence was a huge, huge priority. The company never used data to drive decisions. Data was wildly dispersed across all of these different GM units and product units and bringing all of that data together to tell a story, especially for the regional revenue leadership was really, really challenging. So that was a quick pivot. Like I said, the systems piece I was hoping was sorted by the third party contractor. I was focused on planning and really data and using the data to really inform our strategy.

Janis Zech: It's so interesting listening to you because it, a, feels a bit like Back to the Future for me with Fiverr and InMobi. But at the same time, also, you took on responsibilities that are part of RevOps, but in a broad sense, in a very broad sense. BI sometimes sits within RevOps, sometimes not. I think the whole — essentially what is often kind of a chief of staff situation to align the executive team, the leadership team. And I think we discuss this, can I be more strategic? I think it's a very nice way of, this is actually business operations. It doesn't matter whether it falls into RevOps or SalesOps or how you call it, but it really matters for the company. So these are the projects, and you, with your team that you've been building, are best skilled to run this because otherwise somebody before you had done that and you just take on these things. I think that's a great mindset. I just want to point that out. Which brings me maybe to a good segue. Like, there was a planning interlock between the revenue team and the product team, right? And you ended up also running parts of product later on, but explain the problem there because I think it's a very common problem. And then let's dive deeper into this topic.

Lauren Hughes: Yeah. It was really interesting. So, you know, we rode the economy during the four and a half years I was there. Things were amazing in twenty twenty, twenty twenty one, and kind of coming into twenty twenty two, things became really, really dicey and even more so into twenty twenty three. And so, you know, as part of that, we really had to look under the hood at how the company was operating and really try to think, like, are we set up for success? And with everything that was happening with the product, specifically being an ad exchange, you're so dependent on external factors — being the setup with the DSPs that you work with and making sure that your supply is connected in the right way. We'd have, you know, situations where your revenue would just tank. And we were watching daily revenue delivery and even hourly revenue delivery in some cases and revenue would tank and we wouldn't know why. And so fast forward to kind of twenty twenty three, our CEO — one of the founders, there's four founders within InMobi — and one of the founders actually stepped into a chief product officer role. And, you know, he started running the product like a war room style stand ups, multiple stand ups a day, just trying to move really fast to iterate on our product and really capture as much revenue as possible in a really tough economic environment, especially for advertising. So we had this really good kind of planning interlock structure that my team had stood up starting in twenty twenty one. And it was very clear that, you know, there was an interlock for the plan. But when, you know, the economic situation kind of unfolded the way that it did, everything got tossed out the window. It was just kind of like, how can we iterate on our product as quickly as possible so we can keep capturing as much revenue as possible? And so through that kind of tumultuous time, it was really interesting because we lost our rigor and our communication around the product feedback loop. And so while we had spent all this time standing up a way in which we had the revenue teams informing the product roadmap and the product roadmap kind of adjusting dynamically to what was happening in the market, that kind of all went out the window at some point kind of in the middle of twenty twenty three. And I had to work really hard to bring that back. And that was such an important piece of what I did and the work that I did over twenty twenty three and twenty twenty four because we were going through this time where things were just really erratic and we were really trying to fix things and pivot to adapt to the changes that were happening in the market. But we really couldn't lose sight of what was important to our customers and how to make sure that what was important to our customers was getting communicated back to our product team.

Janis Zech: And so that was — I mean, I think it's a very common problem, right? You have customers saying many different things. You might have other things that impact the product roadmap. I'm curious, what did you do to address that?

Lauren Hughes: Yeah. I think a lot of it was making sure that we were getting the customer feedback and that we were bringing it in and circulating it with the leadership team. That was — you know, now that I look back, I mean, it's like two years ago, but not really back — that was a manual exercise that we did with our sales teams. It wasn't like something that we drove out of like call intelligence and recording like we would do today. But, you know, it was really important that we captured the needs of the market. I remember we had this, like, revenue levers Excel spreadsheet, and we had, like, seventy something levers of all the things that the revenue teams thought we could do if we had product alignment and if we had specific product development. And we kept sending it over to product and it just would go there and, you know, sit there unaddressed, unopened. And so I was at that point reporting to the CFO and he's like, how do we not have a product roadmap? What's going on? Blah, blah, blah. To your point, Janis, I had to wear multiple hats at that time. Being a revenue leader, being the one that was responsible for maximizing our revenue efficiency and revenue delivery, I had to really figure it out and really try to navigate the chief product officer who was also the chief executive officer and navigate his product team who were used to running in this kind of like war room, really dynamic, agile environment. And I had to kind of, you know, infiltrate my way into that organization to say, hey, we need a plan. We need some structure. My boss is the CFO. He's trying to take the company public. We need a plan here. We need a rolling twelve month roadmap. You know, we need all this structure. And so I was trying to take, like, you know, what my CFO boss was asking for in this very structured thing. And I was trying to kind of map it with this erratic operating rhythm of the product team. And that's when I ended up — it's actually interesting — I ended up hiring someone who was gonna — her original job function was supposed to be cascading OKRs for the entire company from leadership down and trying to align people that way and kind of build upon that global business planning framework that we had had in the past that was so successful. And the CEO actually sat me down. He's like, why don't we let her do an internship with the product team? And he's like, let her just live with us for three months. Let her, like, infiltrate herself in our business. And then maybe she can just be the one that, like, is the bridge between product and revenue. And I was like, cool. Yes, please. Because that's what I'd been asking for and trying to do myself for months. And so I gave up a head count and I threw her into the thick of it with the product guys. And she was chasing them around, trying to grab them at lunch. Literally, it was herding cats. And she did a great job. She really learned that business inside out so quickly and was able to really partner with revenue leadership on the flip side to put up an operating rhythm, to put up a planned roadmap, to interlock, you know, the product vision with revenue and customer needs. But it was not easy.

Philipp Stelzer: It reminds me of personal experience. So I originally started in marketing, and that was sort of, like, my key focus area, reporting directly to our COO back at a gaming company. And one of my jobs was also to sort of, like, help the game teams build out, like, their marketing sales, essentially, like, basically selling advertising inventory, right, so through services like InMobi and so on. And I would have had a very hard time connecting with the product teams and then in the end, basically ended up, like, you know, also trying to infiltrate them and then also led in the end, like, one of the product teams. Yeah. This all basically ended up in product management because, you know, I tried to build up, like, a better relationship with the product teams that were running the games, that were responsible for putting in, you know, features that would help ad sales. And so, yeah, just, you know, kind of like becoming a product person essentially was the fix. Right?

Lauren Hughes: Yeah. Infiltration to the deepest possible level here. It's interesting too now because, like, you hear so much about people running RevOps as a product. And when I think about, you know, even the challenges I have today at Justworks and making sure, again, that we're aligning with the product roadmap and that RevOps isn't building its own things and doing its own roadmap independent from product. I think part of the leg up that I have today is that I have that mindset to run RevOps like a product, to build our roadmap, to run our sprints, deliver with documentation, and make sure that we're building the best in class, you know, solutions for our customers who are the commercially facing teams, you know, and I think, you know, that's a way that we gain respect from the product groups that we work with because they think that we understand how to run it.

Janis Zech: Yeah. Hundred percent. Hundred percent. As a product person myself, I also think it's totally fine to force product people into a written rigid framework, to be honest, you know, in cadence because as a product person, I think it's also your responsibility to understand how to grow a company and how to grow a business. It's not about, like, oh, this would be a nice feature that improves the user experience by x y z or, like, whatever. Right? Like, I mean, in the end, like, your job is to make the company successful and understand the underlying economics. And if IPO is the next company goal, then, you know, working towards this, obviously. Yeah. It's just so funny because, like, I think that the problems RevOps face and the problems product people face are very similar. And the mindset is also very similar. They just — and the way you enter those functions is also very similar, very different backgrounds. And then basically, you ask both groups, they want to help grow the company. They want to be more strategic. And then you ask sales about it and marketing, they say the same answer. And yes, that's actually the reality of a company, right? You need a great product and you need great go to market to become really successful. And yes, sometimes the product is the main driver and sometimes go to market is the main driver. And I think that's often the type of companies — if you think about a consumer app like games, people don't need sales. It doesn't matter. Sales is just not important. But amazing marketing is very important. Amazing product is very important. And so I think it's good to think about those companies. What are the key factors to drive success of a company? And then how do you enable those key drivers? Sorry, totally got off topic. One question to you, Lauren. What were the main levers you pulled to drive the alignment between the revenue team and the product team?

Lauren Hughes: Yeah. I think after I gave up a head count to the cause and made that her sole focus and her only job, I think the biggest pieces that we had to do was we had to make sure that we had an operating cadence. And I think, you know, PMM was reporting to product and my PMM partner was also doing a really great job trying to bring that alignment as well and to bring that operating cadence. And so we kind of stacked hands and went at it together. We said, okay, we need, you know, leadership meetings across these, like, five different units within product. We have to be reviewing our progress and our performance as a group on a regular basis. You know, we have to be planning together quarterly, making sure that the roadmap is aligned and prioritized the right way based on the feedback that we get from the market. And so really, like, instituting that operating cadence was a huge priority for us and getting buy in for the operating cadence. It wasn't like, we're gonna slap a meeting on the calendar and hope everyone shows up. It was the product strategy and operations person who worked for me — she had to really prepare the product team to come to that meeting with their plan, with their rationale, with their data and their metrics that really told a story about what they were trying to build, and vice versa. I had to prepare the revenue team to do the same. So it was really making that operating cadence like a really valuable time for the teams to come together and, you know, kind of share what their needs are and co plan together. So that was definitely like the first thing. You know, definitely like looking at, like, what the market needs were was really challenging. I mean, being in advertising in such a tumultuous time. I mean, what's going on with the advertising agencies right now is, like, unprecedented. The consolidation that they're having and the way that their models have evolved. And, you know, being an SSP, a supply side platform, like, it's commodity. And so really trying to make sure that we really understood, like, the customers' needs. We understood what was important to them and making sure that that was communicated back was like a big initiative that we undertook. You know, I think the prioritization was really hard because we were still in this place where we were in fix it mode and things would change outside of our control with the DSPs that we are connected to and some of our supply partners. Like I said, we were monitoring revenue sometimes hourly to see if tweaks that we were making within the product were resulting in actual kind of revenue growth. And you know, kind of balancing that with building for the future was also, you know, really hard and being, you know, not just being a hundred percent reactive, but balancing that with proactivity and, you know, how could we leapfrog to the next level. So those are the things that — which is really hard. Right? Like, I think it's hard in RevOps. Right? Like, you know, incoming requests versus your, you know, midterm roadmap. I think it's really hard in product, especially in, you know, the advertising exchange business because algorithms are driving a lot. So even understanding what the problem is that you need to fix is really, really hard in product and in real time bidding. But that's very specific now.

Janis Zech: One more thing I wanted to bring up. So I think, like, really to recap, like, some of the things that you mentioned here. Right? So it's — I think, like, really building the trust, introducing a cadence, connecting the different functions, bringing them together, creating alignment. I think, you know — and then, obviously, like, the whole topic of, you know, moving out of this reactive zone that is, like, very dreaded, I think, both in product and RevOps and everywhere, really, I think. And then I think there's another topic, and that is also — I guess it's part of alignment and terminology, but also, like, just like the whole data and KPI understanding. Was that a big challenge as well for you? So I mean, I can only imagine, right, like, sales, marketing, having the KPIs, product often quite detached from this because it's like sometimes not so easy to translate this. How was that for you? Was it a problem? And if so, how did you fix it?

Lauren Hughes: Yeah. It's a great question and one that I sat with throughout my entire time at InMobi. You know, like I said, when we started, we really didn't have a data infrastructure, like, period. Full stop. And, you know, we had some really great business insights people that we had hired. At one point, our business insights team was centralized — product and revenue under the same, you know, umbrella. And we made a concerted effort to split that up kind of midway through my tenure at InMobi. And I got the entire revenue business intelligence team, but my revenue business intelligence team also supported everything outside of product. We supported marketing. We supported HR and finance, all from a business intelligence perspective. So kind of like what Janis is saying, you kind of wear whatever hat you're expected to wear at some point based on the needs of the business. And so from my business insights function, we were very focused on connecting product and revenue metrics. You know, we kind of learned early on that product was running against a set of metrics and revenue was running against a different set of metrics, and they were only gonna be valuable if we connected the two. And it was great because the gentleman who was running the product metrics was the former manager of the woman who was running revenue metrics. And so they had a great relationship and they could really partner really well together. And they — because they had been a central business intelligence team at one point — they were really focused on what was right for the business. And so, you know, I think it would have been a lot harder if, from the get go, there was a standalone product insights arm and a standalone revenue insights arm that I had to push together — that would have been a lot more challenging. But they were kind of organically friends and partners. And we really, really worked hard to build dashboards that showed, here's some revenue trends and, okay, what does this mean from a product perspective? And here's some product trends. How does that translate to revenue? And we really tried to stack hands on what were the right metrics that the shared teams could use to operate the business. So I think it was very important, but it was probably a little less challenging than I imagine it could have been had the scenarios been different.

Janis Zech: Yeah. I think, like, with advertising, right, also, you have, like, a clearer connection with what the product team is doing and what, like, that translates into in terms of, like, ad sales. Not for everything. I think, like, for winning new customers, for example, less so. Right? Because then you are, like, in this SaaS B2B situation that — yeah. It's actually quite tough as a product person because, like, it's like checklists of features that then convince the customer to actually, you know, start using it. And then only from that point on, you then have, like, these usage metrics that you can then use to sort of, like, try to translate into, like, dollar retention. That is really, really hard to turn into something. Yeah. But I think it's a bit different with InMobi. Right? Because you have, like, a clearer connection, I guess, between, okay, we increased, like, the number of impressions, I don't know, click rates, CVRs, and so on.

Lauren Hughes: Yes and no. Like, so InMobi has a supply side platform and demand side platform, and so, like, connecting that was a little bit harder. You know, anything in an insertion order based business when you have, like, a dollar commitment from an advertiser is usually pretty clean. You can very much tie, like, they gave me a hundred thousand dollars. I delivered a hundred thousand dollars. Therefore, I could reconcile a hundred thousand dollars. But in this programmatic world, you know, of course, impressions and clicks and performance are all there. But so much of the impressions coming into the exchange are controlled from outside sources. So, you know, The Trade Desk, you know, DV360, Amazon, like those are all the biggest DSPs and they're sending, you know, supply to our exchange and we're trying to match it with demand and, you know, we have no control over how they send us that supply. So it was hard to identify, like, these, you know, InMobi specific product changes that we've made that have sent our revenue either plus or minus day over day, or these, you know, changes that have been made in the algorithms of these huge partners — you know, the very biggest companies, you know, in the space — you know, they're making changes all the time. And how did those impact us? That was a little bit harder to line up on what those metrics were.

Janis Zech: I mean, one area in SaaS, what happens very often is, right, like, sales — especially enterprise — like, sells a deal, commits to five features that are actually not on the roadmap. You get signed. Customer comes on board, and then suddenly product realizes, okay, there are all these commitments, and all the customers are getting very unhappy. And now what do you do? You have your roadmap. You have basically people that already sold stuff that you don't have. And customers sign out when they onboard. And so you're in this dilemma. And I think that's a very real reality. So I think the relationship between revenue and product is often a big challenge. And so how do you bring that together? You need to work on the leadership level that they understand you don't oversell. You might want to have good solution engineering in the deals to ensure that you actually have a feedback loop and some controls around it. You probably want to have a very transparent roadmap and things like that. But I think these are all things. And then obviously product — I think that's the other piece that often the revenue folks are not happy about — is product folks never talking to customers, which is another big challenge in general, I would say. And I think all of those things actually are part of the job description. Product should continuously talk to customers and revenue should definitely not oversell products they don't have. Revenue leaders should not accept that at all and have compliance topics against it because it really harms companies from my point of view. But it needs to be done. So it's — it can't — like, it's these things that you cannot just ignore because over time, they're like cancer and they burn everybody out.

Lauren Hughes: Yeah. No. I totally agree. When I first joined InMobi, we had, like, a product innovation day where we'd invite a group of — our product team would come and we'd invite a group of customers. And we'd put them all in a room and we did this maybe quarterly. A lot of times it was done around Cannes, which is like the big festival in France every summer. And it was really valuable. It was valuable to bring, you know, not only the customers together to, like, you know, talk to each other, but also really to give that feedback loop to our product team. And we had a change of leadership in our marketing department, and that program went out the window. And, you know, you could definitely tell once that program was over that, you know, the product team wasn't really going to meet customers, and that was a big miss for us.

Janis Zech: Awesome. Yeah. I mean, I don't know, Philipp, any other questions?

Philipp Stelzer: No. I mean, I think, like, for me, like, the key thing sort of, like, is, you know, lessons learned for the future. You know, I think I'm already living it at my next — in my next gig. Exactly. Like I was, you know, in a product meeting yesterday. The key takeaways maybe — I think that would be a great way to round this off.

Lauren Hughes: Yeah. I mean, I think, like, RevOps is the glue. Right? Like, we always say that, but we're the quarterback or the glue or the nucleus, whatever term you wanna use. Like, we really hold together a lot of these cross functional teams, and we really do help bridge the gap between marketing, sales, customer success and support, and product. You know, it really does require somebody who oversees all of those different functions and who knows the priorities of all of those different functions and who knows how all of those different functions interact with customers to really help paint a vision of, you know, what collaboration looks like and to really, you know, bring people together. So I think for me, as I look forward to my career at Justworks, which is just starting, you know, we're definitely the natural translator between those different teams. And I'm already seeing myself — you know, the product team actually has welcomed me with open arms at Justworks. They're so excited to have me in this seat. I've had multiple, you know, interactions with our CPO. He's like, please come to all my team meetings. Be the revenue representative at the table. We need you there. So the partnership is there, and it's starting to form, and it's super exciting. But, you know, I anticipate there will be a lot more similar challenges because they're pretty much the same in every organization as I'm sure you know, Philipp. But I think, you know, in terms of lessons learned, like, we are that natural translator. It's expected of us. And whether or not it's our day job, like, we're here to do it also. And, you know, I think that that's really important. And I'm so excited to plug AI because everyone else is doing it on every podcast you listen to now. But, you know, those tools that are exploding in the market right now are really giving us, you know, no excuse to really, you know, improve the product feedback loop and to really capture the needs of our customers. Like, we've never been able to capture the needs of our customers at scale the way that we can now. And to really get that information back to the product team, like, you know, they can hear