Philipp Stelzer: Welcome to another edition of the RevOps Lab Podcast. My guest today is Ryan Milligan, who's the VP of Sales and Revenue Operations at QuotaPath. Ryan, welcome.

Ryan Milligan: Thank you very much for having me, Philipp. Really looking forward to the conversation.

Philipp Stelzer: Yeah. No. Great to have you. We actually met at the RevOps AF 2024 conference in San Diego. I think at this point, it's two or three weeks away. I don't know. Like, time has run past.

Ryan Milligan: Yeah. Yeah. Cool.

Philipp Stelzer: Yeah. Maybe, Ryan, can you introduce yourself in two or three sentences for our listeners who don't know you yet?

Ryan Milligan: Sure. Yeah. So hi, everyone. I'm Ryan Milligan. I lead the sales and revenue operations teams at QuotaPath. QuotaPath automates the process of calculating and paying commissions. So giving your sales teams or your reps visibility into their commission earnings in real time, allowing them to forecast how much they would earn on deals they've already closed, and then deals they could close in the future, kind of gamified commissions for them a bit, making it easy for ops teams to roll out spiffs and different components of comp plan design in a very kind of easy to use deployable UI and then helping finance at the end of the period actually calculate and pay commissions. Been here for about two and a half years now and recently took over our sales team in Q4. I have a RevOps and operations background, and happy to go into more detail about that too.

Philipp Stelzer: Yeah. Actually, I would love to hear more. Like, so you have a data science and marketing background, I think. Right? You've been at Wayfair. You've been at Homebase. You had a short stint at HubSpot as well. So kinda like how did that happen? How did you end up in revenue operations? And then I think even more, like, how did it come to be that you also took over the sales team, which I think is very rare.

Ryan Milligan: Yeah. My career journey is kinda similar to or interesting in a lot of people's ways. I call it a jungle gym. You kinda figure out over time what you like and as the market evolves. So, graduated from college, went to work at Wayfair dot com. Really, I wanted to work for a company that was solving a problem, and I found Wayfair to be super interesting. Did data science work there, so have, like, an analytical SQL based data science background, and that's where I started. Realized I wanted to do something a little bit more operationally P&L minded versus solely on the analytics side. So I actually moved to take over our display advertising team, on the marketing side of the house. Did that for about a year or two before going to business school. While at business school, I knew I wanted to go into B2B software. I liked B2C, but I kinda liked the problems that B2B software solves a bit more. I interned at HubSpot. That was a short stint between my first and second year of business school, which kind of affirmed my interest in B2B software and then moved to a company called Homebase, employee scheduling and time tracking for local small businesses. It was a shift in type of business for me from B2C to B2B. So took over performance marketing, paid search, and demand generation there, paid search and organic, what have you. Throughout my time there, I realized that I was really interested in this new, kind of budding industry or role of revenue operations. I felt like it was the perfect mix between the P&L campaign management, process management stuff you do as a performance marketer paired with some of the interesting operational and measurement and business rhythm measurement stuff you do on a data science or analytics. So it felt like kind of the perfect marriage for me. Did that at Homebase for a couple of years and then moved over to QuotaPath to lead the revenue operations team. And any growth stage startup, you get presented with opportunities while those companies grow and operate. And so led our account management team here for about nine months last year focused on GRR and renewals, and it's a good ability to have a little bit of a P&L on the GRR side. And then in the fall of last year, our former sales leader was really focused on and interested in focusing on partnerships. There was a space in the area for someone to take on sales leadership. And I felt like I knew the product really well. I knew the problem really well, being the person calculating and paying commissions, and could bring some of that operational, I've been in a lot of demo kind of rigor to pair really well with the art of selling, which has been a fun journey so far.

Philipp Stelzer: Yeah. Okay. Amazing. Yeah. No. I think this is really, really, really fascinating story. I think if you look at the RevOps landscape, I mean, there definitely is not, like, a clear path into RevOps. Right? Like, some people come more from the sales ops side. Some people come more from actually being AEs at an early stage company, kinda, like, took over, like, tech stack there and then sort of, like, evolved into RevOps over time. It's also quite common. I think on marketing, it is a bit rarer, but we also see it every now and then. So, yeah, I know. It's great. It's great to hear a story, and it's also great that I think, like, you basically, over time, moved into that really strategic role in RevOps as it sounds. Right? Like, just correct me if I'm wrong, but, like, the way I hear you is that RevOps at QuotaPath, like, your role is is much more strategic. You work more with the leadership team. You're not like a glorified Salesforce admin.

Ryan Milligan: Exactly. And that's what I feel true RevOps is. So in my RevOps capacity solely even before taking on the sales team, I sat on our management team, reported directly to our CEO, and I effectively managed all things analysis of the business and board reporting. And so I think RevOps really has the opportunity in today's market to be that neutral arbiter and measurer of the business while not being slated into just being a glorified sales ops or glorified sales per submitter or what have you. I think RevOps has the opportunity to be a truly neutral viewer of the business throughout the entire funnel. Right? So QuotaPath — we operate in a high volume, heavily PLG influenced business with a free trial. People are signing up for free trials at QuotaPath every day. And so to measure the efficacy of the business, you have to look at the product and how well the product does at converting people in a free trial to talking to us, then the handoff into sales, how efficient that conversation is, how marketing influences both of those spheres, and then going into the customer experience and success side of the house. And so a true RevOps adviser within a company is somebody who can join all that data together in a way that tells the story and really flags, okay. This is where we're off. This is where we need to invest more resources.

Philipp Stelzer: Yeah. Yeah. I like that a lot. Yeah. So for those who are stuck in more like the admin side of things at the moment, which I definitely know is true for many of our European listeners. I think Europe is always like a little bit behind. The UK, it's a bit more advanced. Definitely the US is like the most advanced in that regard for sure. Our topic of today is compensation planning, and we actually did two episodes on this in the past, so I think one is still about to air. Once this episode airs, it already has been published. One is with Jeremy Lamont. This has been a while back. It was more like a general introduction into the topic of compensation planning. The other one is consumption based compensation planning, so compensation planning for consumption based businesses with Gabe Rothman from Rescale. In both of these conversations, for me, one thing that really stuck out was that compensation planning really is a good way to move into a more strategic role if you are stuck in this more admin task side of things, really, you have all the information at your fingertips. You can actually really help sales leaders and generally the leadership team to come up with better compensation planning. So this is a real opportunity in every organization to sort of, like, you know, stand up and shine, in my opinion. So I think it's good that we, you know, continue this series and go a bit deeper.

Ryan Milligan: Yeah. And I talk to a lot of people who are evaluating QuotaPath who have solely inherited a comp plan, and they're saying, oh, I just need to shove this comp plan into a tool to spit out a number to pay my team. And my push for them is always, why would you spend all this time trying to make this bad comp plan work if instead you know the business really well, you know the metrics you're trying to drive in improving your business? Is your comp plan driving those changes within those metrics or intended to? And if not, then why have it? So I try to advise, especially people kind of entering that mid level of their revenue operations career, don't take that compensation plan at face value. Really try to dig and understand, okay, what exactly is this comp plan trying to motivate, and are those motivations aligned with the metrics that we need to improve for our business? So it's a really great point.

Philipp Stelzer: Yeah. No. I like that. So maybe maybe let's kick it off with the most basic question of all. Like, why even have a compensation plan at all? You alluded to it a bit, but I think we can go deeper on that.

Ryan Milligan: Yeah. Yeah. It's a very funny question because, you know, you hear people in the same kind of realm in which I was talking who inherit these comp plans. They don't know what the motivation is. They're handed to reps who just think it's a way to earn half of their take home pay. A lot of people have comp plans, and the way that they operate in comp plans today is because we have to. Because I've hired this person, I'm paying them fifty k base, I have this fifty k variable, and I have to have a way to pay them. The truth is, the reason you have a comp plan is because you are trying to motivate humans to do what is best for your business and pay them more money if they do something truly great for your business. Now quota attainment is certainly one component of that. Right? On a new business side, the more revenue they bring in for your business, the more you're going to want to pay them. That's kind of base table stakes. But I would push listeners to think about who are your great reps and what are they doing that's particularly advantageous for your business. And we'll go into it in a little bit, but I want a comp plan to be a way to pay people that base commission rate, but also accelerate rates for things that are really, really exciting and truly great for the business. And when I do compensation plan consulting, the question that I ask is, what does a great new customer look like for you? Are they within your ICP? Are they signing a longer term contract? Are they buying multiple products? Like, you know, we all know that great closed won deal that's like, wow. This is an awesome customer. What are the characteristics of that? And how do I pay my reps more money to go bring in more and more of those customers?

Philipp Stelzer: Yep. Yeah. I think the best sales companies really double down on this process, and compensation planning is a good way to incentivize following a certain process. It's like, how I understand you. So, yeah, I think it's just one of the different levers that you have to really move people into a certain direction and incentivize them for behavior. Yeah, in your mind, like, what are the biggest challenges when it comes to compensation planning?

Ryan Milligan: Yeah. I think the one that I run into a lot is the person's scope of control within the org and how much influence they can have. People say, oh, I got handed this comp plan. I can't really change it. And what I push back on there is I tend to advise people, look. If you come with a really well thought out redesign of a comp plan based on the metrics of your business, you know, people are going to at least listen and understand how you're going to drive those metrics. And to the point earlier, this is a really great opportunity for a more junior team member or a RevOps member who's trying to get into more of that internal advisory measurement of the business role. This is a really interesting and packaged microcosm of, like, the influence you can have more long term at the business. So one is definitely team members feeling like they don't have that kind of control and autonomy over comp plan design. I would say the second is organizations that feel like their comp plan needs to have so many different kind of checks and balances to not overpay. The most complicated comp plans that I run into are from organizations that initially had good intent, but then were worried about overpaying people and setting all these different floors and decelerators and cliffs and all this sort of stuff. My honest take on a comp plan is if you're a two million dollar ARR business, and a rep closes a million dollar deal and it's a good deal for you, you should pay them an absurd amount of money because they have just grown your business fifty percent. And, yes, you're not gonna love running that. You're gonna be worried about the financial ramifications of running that check. You know, maybe you wait until first invoice is received and set yourself up for success, but you should be smiling writing that check because you're rewarding a human for doing something that was truly monumental for your business. And so those are the two. I think scope of control and then the perceived, hey. We have to use this comp plan as a way to make sure we don't pay too much are probably the two biggest problems I see kind of in comp plan design overall.

Philipp Stelzer: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think, like, a big red flag with comp planning — and a hundred percent agree in everything you said — but, like, a big red flag is comp plans being too complicated and really hard to execute on, so they take a lot of time or resources internally to even, you know, sort of, like, take care of these payouts. And I think this is sort of like what you end up with when you try to create a comp plan that is like totally ungameable. Like, do you really want that? Like, do you really wanna invest so much time to make it so ungameable? And would that also be like a bit demotivating for those top sales reps that you have who have that potential to really grow your business? Like in your example, fifty percent, that's pretty tremendous.

Ryan Milligan: Well, think about the standard compensation plan process in, like, a mid sized organization. The rep doesn't understand their comp plan, so they don't — it's got a thousand different drivers and a thousand different rates. So, truly, at this point, they just don't get what it is and what makes them earn the most money. Then they close deals throughout the quarter. It gets to April seventh. The finance team is off in Excel in kind of their walled garden doing all the math. Then they're taking a screenshot of typically an Excel or a PDF or something. They're slacking it one on one to each of the reps who then the reps are running their own shadow accounting on the side to, like, check the math and make sure they were paid correctly. That process, which is a very standard process I've seen hundreds of times at this point, completely counteracts and contradicts the point of a comp plan because the rep has not been motivated in period to close the deals that are best for the business because she doesn't know what deals are gonna make her the most money. The purpose of the comp plan is to in period tell your rep, okay. If I close the Smith Software deal, it's a two year deal that I self set as outbound. I'm gonna make a lot more money than if I close the Jones Software deal. That's a month to month contract without great terms. And even if — and this is where it becomes really tricky — even if this Jones second deal is a higher revenue amount, in some worlds, you want the team member to close the lower revenue amount deal that has a longer commitment, was self set, that's more fruitful, and that's why you pay them through accelerators and other things more money for this deal. So it elevates it up to be, hey. This is a great customer for us in our business. And that is where you use the comp plan as a tool to drive a human to do what's best for the outcome for your business and then for their wallet because you're paying them.

Philipp Stelzer: Great. Yeah. Love that explanation. Yeah. So just maybe to recap. Right? So make sure that your comp plan is motivating, that the expectations that you set are somewhat realistic. It should not take super long to execute for whoever takes care of that internally for all the payouts and so on and the calculations, and it should be easy enough so that reps can actually understand it, so they are motivated, and, you know, they can actually, like, while they're in the quarter or whatever, like, sort of like that period is, they can actually understand, okay. This is how much money I'm gonna make.

Ryan Milligan: Exactly. And we talk about it a lot like pizza toppings. You don't really want more than two toppings on the pizza. So have a base comp plan and then have one to two things that signal greatness, which we can talk about a bit more in the context in a minute. But have those two things where a rep knows, okay. This is the base. If I close this deal, and if I do this or this, I'll make more money. And then those — this or this — aligns to things that are great for your business and then everyone wins.

Philipp Stelzer: Okay. Perfect. So to make it a bit more practical, so who do you typically involve into comp planning or, you know, what in your mind is, like, a good setup? Who should be involved — typical B2B SaaS company?

Ryan Milligan: So there's typically a standard party of three. A revenue operations leader, a sales leader, and a finance leader, or a revenue leader and a finance leader are the most common trio. They all have their own motivations but are working together to get to the best possible outcome. I think the revenue operations leader wants comp plans that they can easily build and deploy and roll out and maintain the trust that they have with their sales team. Oftentimes the — or their account management team or CSM or what have you. The RevOps leader is that neutral arbiter who oftentimes is responsible for the execution of the plans, and so they wanna understand them and be able to execute them easily. The sales leader or the revenue leader is focused on paying the team fairly and motivating the right performance and having good visibility into attainment over the period. And then the finance leader is naturally focused on cost. I think a lot of people give the finance leader a hard time and say that they just don't want to spend a lot of money. From my conversations, the finance leader — there are two things that happen, and I would say it's untrue. One is that the finance leader feels a fiduciary responsibility to the business and the board. Like, they are the business's representation to the board who's invested the money. And so they wanna spend that money, but spend it appropriately on things that are truly motivating, and they wanna see ROI of that spend. So they want, if we're going to spend money on a compensation plan on certain pieces, we're going to spend that money to drive the action that's great for the business. And so there's three kind of different motivations, but ultimately, they're all, if you really, really peel it back, all aligned to that same concept of motivate humans to do things that are great for our business because at that senior leadership layer, ultimately, they're focused on the success of the business versus success of their individual team.

Philipp Stelzer: Yeah. For sure. Okay. Great. And then how should that group of typically three people approach comp planning? What's a good starting point? What's something to think about to get the conversation going?

Ryan Milligan: So for me, it's always the financial plan. I mean, if you go through the process of what you're trying to do with a comp plan, remember, you're trying to drive people to do something that is great for your business. What is great for your business? And really, what metric do you need to move in your financial plan this year that you submitted to your board to have the year you need to have? In today's macro market and today's software market, a lot of times it's gross revenue retention. We need to reduce our churn. We need to get our customers expanding and renewing in a really positive way. So gross revenue retention is the crux of a lot of the conversations that I'm having today, but maybe it's pipeline generation, maybe it's win rate, maybe it's adoption or penetration of a new product. You figure out at your financial plan what that metric is that truly makes a difference in the outcome of your year. Does your GRR have to grow from seventy to ninety percent? Does your win rate have to grow from ten percent to fifteen percent? What's that thing that really in your financial plan dictates the success of your business? Let's say it is gross revenue retention for the sake of conversation. Then you figure out what is within the scope of control for each of your disparate teams from your BDRs to your AEs, to your account managers, to your marketing team. What is in the scope of control for each of those team members that ties back to improving gross revenue retention? So super simply, let's say that you have an ICP, an ideal customer profile that you know renews at a really high rate. Well, let's motivate our marketing team through an accelerated rate to drive more ICP pipeline. And then let's motivate our BDR through — you know, maybe they get fifty dollars per demo. Give them another twenty five dollars per demo for an ICP demo because those demos are great and renew at a high rate. Then maybe on the sales side, what protects GRR? Longer term engagements. So let's give them a higher commission rate for signing two year contracts versus one year or three year versus two year and ICP potentially, and then maybe payment upfront or other components like that. And then on the account management side, let's think about adoption. How do we motivate based on initial adoption post contracts, mature usage, longer term contract renewals? And so what you've done is you've taken this GRR metric. You split it out into, okay, what improves GRR? High adoption, high ICP penetration, and longer term contracts. And then you take that from the tree and put it within each team member's scope of control to motivate those people to do what's great for your business. The example that I use a lot is we had a customer who, when they joined working with QuotaPath, like, three years ago, two percent of their revenue was on multiyear contracts. And lo and behold, they motivated — I worked with them to design a comp plan that did pretty much exactly this to motivate their marketing team, their BDR team, their AE team, their AM team all focused on longer term contracts. And who knew? You pay the team more money. They've grown from two percent of their revenue in multiyear to thirty percent of their revenue in multiyear because they're motivating individual team members to do that thing that we're gonna pay them more for.

Philipp Stelzer: Yeah. I mean, it changed the behavior really along the whole sort of, like, pipeline generation chain, if you will. So, like, if you, of course, change it also for the marketing side, right, they will adjust their messaging. They will adjust, like, how they treat the different channels. Like you said, BDRs, SDRs will behave differently. Will look for meetings with different ICPs. So yeah, and of course it goes up to the CSM, AM, and so on. Yeah, yeah. Great. Okay. For compensation planning to be understood, it also needs to be made transparent. Right? Like, we had that point earlier. And, like, so what's your recommendation? I mean, basically, QuotaPath is a way to solve that. Right? Like, shameless plug here at QuotaPath. Totally fine. We're — I think we know what competitors. But, yeah, curious, like, how does QuotaPath solve it? How have you seen it being solved? Maybe also at Wayfair or Homebase in the past. What are good ways to do it.

Ryan Milligan: So naturally, a tool like QuotaPath is gonna help you solve this problem. The way that we think about it is give team members, individual sellers or individual AMs, visibility on the deal by deal, opportunity by opportunity record to understand how much they've earned in commissions on deals they've closed already. So if you want a team member when you log in to QuotaPath as a rep, you can see pretty instantaneously, hey. I just closed this deal. I earned fifteen percent on it because my base commission rate is ten percent, and then I got two percent for it being an outbound deal and then another three percent for it being a two year deal. So you're giving those team members visibility in real time into deals they've closed already. But what makes QuotaPath particularly unique is you can also do that in terms of your pipeline. So team members can go into their pipeline and actually forecast, hey. If I'm committing software deals A, D, and F, if I close A, D, and F, here's how much more money I'm going to make. Especially interesting when you have different commission rate tiers for different percentage of attainment. So if maybe zero to fifty percent attainment, you earn five percent, and then fifty one to seventy five percent attainment you earn eight percent retroactively, right, on all of the deals you sold. So there's those kind of cliff points. And so we give team members visibility to play those what if scenarios and really truly see, oh, if I close this deal, I'm gonna make a lot more money because it retroactively applies to everything else. When we brought on a new customer in November of last year, and I remember this fondly on the call, he told me that a rep missed out on five thousand dollars of commission payment if he had closed one more deal because the team member ended the quarter at sixty eight percent attainment. And if they had ended the quarter at seventy or above percent attainment, they would have unlocked a higher commission rate across all the deals they closed so far because their tiers are retroactive, and the rep had no idea. And so the rep was very, very frustrated because starting in the new quarter, you start fresh. And had they been able to pull one more deal in, it would have unlocked a huge amount of cash across all these different deals they had already closed. And so that's what we're trying to motivate is that visibility and that motivation and being able to play those what if scenarios on the deal level. Hey. If I turn this into a two year deal, here's how much more money I'll make for it. But regardless of a commission tracking tool, the truth is you wanna give people that access in some way or another. If you're going the manual Excel route, you just wanna show how you're doing those calculations. It's just gonna take you a lot of time to do and run those what if scenarios constantly for your team, and that's why we find people tending to come join us.

Philipp Stelzer: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like, reps already spend a lot of their time not selling. I mean, I think, like, statistics vary there, right, but I think it's always somewhere around forty to sixty percent. So let's assume fifty percent of the time is basically admin work, you update deals, I don't know, like you write follow ups, you ask questions to internal stakeholders about the product or whatever, and then you also spend time trying to replicate the calculation of your compensation plan that, you know, is already hard to understand for you maybe — it's probably not time well spent. So yeah.

Ryan Milligan: Oh, we talk about shadow accounting. I mean, the QuotaPath ROI conversation — and we're pretty open with customers and prospects about the ROI math and how we think about it for return on investment. And it's really interesting because an admin or a RevOps leader will come in and say, oh, it only takes me an hour every month to calculate and pay commissions or two hours, which I always pressure test a little bit. Like, you're pretty fast if you're doing this in an hour in Excel, and not making any mistakes, mind you, because that's the other thing. Like, we can talk separately about the process of making mistakes and how demotivating that is and what have you. But an admin or a RevOps leader will come in and say, hey. It only takes me two hours. And then my team's next question is, okay. So how much shadow accounting are all of your reps doing? Because if you have fifty reps and each of them are spending an hour every month in Excel checking your math, you've gone from two hours a month on commissions to fifty two hours a month on commissions, and that really opens eyes on, oh, wow. This is a very costly internal process, let alone QuotaPath typically sees anywhere from three percent to five percent lift in attainment after implementing because of that visibility and the motivation and all sorts of stuff we talked about earlier. So it's a fun ROI math conversation because it's both ops leader time plus rep time plus attainment lift all driving into — usually a no brainer for pretty much everyone.

Philipp Stelzer: Yeah. No. I think it's great. I think it's great. Yeah. And last question on the topic is, for me, how often should companies look to redo the comp plan? Is it, yeah, once per year? Is it only when, like, fundamental parts of the business change? How would you advise companies should approach that?

Ryan Milligan: The natural answer is once a year. Do it at the end of the year. Do not wait till February or March because you've just wasted prime selling time where reps don't know what their comp plan is. I talked to someone at Pavilion's CRO Summit a couple weeks ago who told me that at one time she got her comp plan in May. And I was like, well, the year is — I don't understand. So do it as early as possible. We call it Comptober, so spend October doing your comp plan design. But in terms of modifying, I think really when you wanna modify is on a couple areas. One is if any of your assumptions were truly off, and I think about this once a quarter. So I think going into a quarter, you're allowed to go to your team and say, hey. These are the modifications we're going to make to the comp plan. The modifications you're gonna wanna make are gonna wanna be beneficial to the person you're making them for. Right? They've signed the document. So if you all of a sudden cut their commission rate from ten percent to four percent, that's not a great outcome for anybody involved. The modifications you can make are, hey. These are new accelerators that we wanna drive. These are new SPIFFs we wanna run, or these are new products we're looking to sell. So this is a new way we're looking to go about it. But, really, it's taking your base comp plan and layering some of those things on top of it, whether quarterly or twice a year. The biggest piece of advice I would say is don't pull the rug out from under your team and change your comp plan mid period that ultimately is negative for them. And if you are going to make comp plan changes — or actually whatever you design comp — bring your sellers into the process. I go on coffee walks with the team when I'm designing their comp plan one on one. I ask, hey. What do you really love about this comp plan? What do you not like so much? And then we go through that back and forth about what they would look for. I'm not gonna give them everything they want. Right? I'm not paying them forty percent commission rate, but I can throw them a couple of those wins in the design to have them feel like their voice was heard, especially if I'm passing on some things. Like, if I'm raising quotas year over year, I pair that with a win for them. So it feels like we're all collectively involved.

Philipp Stelzer: Yeah. Yeah. I think it's important to remember, like, a badly designed comp plan can lead to attrition, that's really something you don't want. And I think it's not crazy complicated to avoid it.

Ryan Milligan: Well, and I think we're in a market today — I mean, we're in an employer's market today with interest rates where they are and the job market and what have you, but we are not always going to be in an employer market. It is going to revert back to a candidate market or an employee market. And so if you've treated your team members poorly with comp plan design in today's market, you're basically racking up a bunch of prebuilt attrition the second the job market opens up for them again. And so don't just think because you're in an employer market today, you can use comp plans as a way to treat your employees unfairly. You're just saving up for a market in which you lose a lot of talent in the future.

Philipp Stelzer: For sure. Yeah. Great point. Great point. It's definitely gonna turn around again.

Ryan Milligan: And then it's gonna turn around again. And, I mean, this is just how it goes.

Philipp Stelzer: Yeah. Yeah. Ryan, thank you so much. This was a great episode, and I think alluded to a lot of important topics. So I think there's a lot of, like, good takeaways for our listeners. We always ask this one question — or actually, we ask a different question in the past, but I changed it just recently. So looking back at your career, what's one of the kindest things someone has done for you?

Ryan Milligan: I would say it's a great question. Specifically at QuotaPath in recent growth, it has been giving me the opportunity to expand my remit. So I would definitely shout out our CEO, AJ Bruno